Joe Rogan HAMMERS Adam Conover in 'TRANSGENDERS in Sports' Debate


(stammering) .

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uuuhhh, well, uuuh first of aaaaa, uuuuh, aaaah, there's.

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(Joe Rogan) There's alot there's a reason why we make the distinction to have male athleticsversus FEMA athletics the reason is that males have a physiological physiologicaladvantage over women as far as trans athletes go you know we could have wecould sit here and talk for three hours about like all the different ways thathormones might affect your body might not affect your body all right we'regonna start with Joe Rogan side of the argument then it'll go over to AdamConover but before we do I want to know what do you think about this specifictopic let me know in the comments below do you think that people who changetheir sex should be able to compete with their newly identified sex in sports sofor instance if a guy does whatever you have to do to be considered transitionedto a girl should they then be able to fight women in MMA before we startinglisten to what Joe's cited says I want to let you know this is one of the mostridiculous debates if you'd even call it that that I've ever broken down oneperson uses facts to argue their side and the other person just uses pureidealism and the way that he kind of wishes it could be and that's all I'llsay I'll let you decide who's who so here's Rogen's thoughts my point of viewis that there's a reason there's a distinction there's a reason why we makethe distinction to have male athletics versus fimA athletics the reason is thatmales have a physiological physiological advantage over women so in most sportsmost physical sports we do not have males compete with females the questionbecomes when someone who is male transitions and becomes female do thosesame physiological advantages apply and what what are they what is the evidencewell the evidence and competition seems to be that it shows that it does applyparticularly in weightlifting rugby mountain biking power heavy sports thatare that favored larger people stronger bodies males that transition to femaleshave a significant advantage and they're breaking world so before we get too deepin this I do want to point out that this video is to focus on the socialinteraction between these two I don't want you get too hung up on your viewson which side is right or wrong there's a lot of different videos andthat I'm interested in the social interaction so you can learn from whatthese guys are doing right or wrong and use it in your own life so if you're awoman and you're a natural woman and you don't take any extra hormones or malehormones you're not taking steroids or any sort of performance-enhancing drugsyou're doing your very best to compete and you're at the top of the heap butthen someone comes along that was a man for 30 years and decides they're goingto be a woman and this has happened and literally transitioned a few months agoand competes as a woman and destroys records and dominates you in that sportthat's bullshit and that's not competing on a level playing field and the thingabout this you'll notice is Rogan usually is so calm in his discussion alot of people always think oh it looks like he's high but in this you can seehe's really trying to keep cool cuz it's such a hot-button issue for him becausehe announces a lot of the MMA and UFC fights and he saw this happen when a manwho had transitioned to be a woman fought in the woman's category and justdominated the person I mean it was basically looked just like a guyfighting a woman and he doesn't want that right he cares about the sport hewants it to be a good fair fight so he's clearly passionate about this so it'sinteresting to see a guy like Rogan who's usually so calm and cool the pointthat people think he's high get really worked up and try to restrain himselfthat's a person who's biologically a male and who was a male for 30 plusyears of having testosterone run through their body and affect their tendonstrength and affect the shape of their bones and the mechanical advantages ofthe male hips versus the female hips and then they're competing with smallerpeople who have been a woman their whole life it's not fair it's it's as muchcheating as taking steroids when the other person doesn't or takingperformance-enhancing drugs when the other person doesn't maybe even more somaybe even more so because you also have there's a bunch of advantages in termsof reaction time that males enjoy it's like it's some significant difference inreaction time between males and even untrained males versus femaleprofessional athletes well I disagree and I what do you disagree about I'veseen now that's that's that's Rogan's strength there he says I disagreeand so Rogan knows he's pulled from thaw it's an actual experience of things hashappened so we asked for clarity well what do you disagree on there's nothingyou can really disagree on unless you're not going to use facts to disagree solet's see if Adam does use facts there's no way he can't so let's see what hesaid I've already well the my main point being the onethat I already made right that like I don't think that there is such a thingas a perfectly level playing field I think we decide what kind of playingfield we want to have sure we do make the distinction where we don't allow mento compete in women's division and I think that that distinction may bebreaking down a bit right and I think it may be time to break down so thedistinction of men and women is breaking down is what he said distinction so youthink that males should be able to compete in the women's division ofweightlifting no I don't necessarily but I can if they transition well first ofall the there's there's a do you know this you know this is he stuttering thisreminds me we broke down that the Dorsey the Twitter and his attorney when peopledon't have a good answer and they're buying time you notice the stutter so Imean listen to him trying to come up with an idea here well first of all thethere's there's a lot of stuff to break down right and I'm not an expert on thesubject and also another thing how many times has he said oh I'm not an experton this I don't really know how hormones work I don't really know about it butit's the way I'd like it it's the it's the sport that I would like to watch solisten to this thing right here and I'm not an expert on that and I don't wantto claim to be right but a sports with trans athletes who are you knowcompeting with the you know with their gender right that's that is a sportingworld that I'm more interested in right and I think we should find a way to makethat have this is this is really the most ridiculous line of the whole debateis he basically says he thinks that people who transition should be able tocompete in it because that's the world of sports that he's more interested inwatching so we should work towards that that's that is a sporting world that I'mmore interested in right and I think we should find a way to make that that'shis argument can you imagine like I think it bothers me about this is thisguy has a big show and people have platforms have influence just becausethey have ears and it shapes people's perspective on things so when you havepeople who admittedly know nothing about this he said so many times thisinterview he doesn't know anything about this but because he wishes that's theway it should be he's trying to tell people that's theway it should be even though there's no fact behind it that's like all of asudden the president saying oh do I wish that everyone every day of the yearcould go to Disneyland for free just that's the world that I'd like to livein well great but that's irresponsible to use a platform to try to convincepeople that's the way something should be when it's completely not based onfact right what Disney would go under in a month if that was the case but it'sthe way I'd like it to be I just feel like this is I don't know anything aboutthis guy I've actually never seen a show I've seen his face on billboards andstuff when I was in LA before but I just think that's a completely irresponsiblething to do and from a social perspective what we've seen in this isJoe Rogan just dominates the whole thing why because he's using fact andexperience art versus a guy who's just using the way he wants it to be so it'simpossible to debate against someone who knows anything about debate when oneperson uses fact and the other person uses fear right so it's just sort of myoff the top of my head one thing is you know your postulating a particularperson who decided to transition at the age of 30 right and they were very bigand strong before right and they decide to transition now that is a type ofperson that exists right I think over the next certainly 30 years we're gonnasee you know now that people are starting to understand that being transis just a way that people are right they're just people who are trans youknow and this is something that we're gonna accept and support right you'reseeing folks transition much much earlier age you know there's so but thenand and so so there's roken but he never talks over people either but he has somany thoughts on this and he probably has good valid points to bring up thathe even has to cut himself off of this is it you don't see that offered withhim you know I have a friend who has a who has a trans kidno no the kids attacked age but you know in the age range that we're talkingabout and you know he's explained that like well you know my child from a veryyoung age consistently like said I am a girl like and has never contradictthemselves never changed their mind and so the humane thing and the thing thathe felt was going to do as a parent was to like embrace that choice on hischild's part right and yeah that's the embrace of choice meaning hormone WillyI shouldn't even phrase it as a choice like like embrace that identity but itis a choice right I mean if I'm choosing to add hormones to a child's body that'sa choice it's it's the it's a choice on the point on the part of the parent it'snot a choice in the on the on the part of the child to like in the way thatbeing is they were they being gay isn't a choice yeah so now he's just drawing acorrelation between that don't make sense he's saying the kid doesn't have achoice in being gay therefore they don't have a choice if they start takinghormones to support the sex that they feel like they are let's not even knowhow you come back with an argument from I just doesn't even make sense but ifthat's who they are if they think that they're a girl why do you have to givethem hormones to make them more of a girl because I'm sorry can you actuallyjust watching this now can you explain the question how hard is that tounderstand Rogan says if there's someone who thinks they feel like a girl why dothey have to have more hormones to feel a girl and what is he doing what is it'sclassic just buying time can you explain the question of the funny thing isusually when people use that tactic they're asking for more clarity on aquestion that's a little more complicated but this question is asstraightforward as it gets simple question if you say that the childthinks it's a girl so you're going to give the child hormones mm-hmm if thechild thinks it's a girl let it be a girl like you don't have why you addinghormones if you're shooting hormones into a child and you're affecting thechild's development you're saying that's not a choice that's nonsense of courseit's a choice you're choosing to chemically change this child's body dogender confirmation via hormones and know that that doesn't affect thisah great the suicide rate for trans people is very high post-op and pre-opreally doesn't get affected by whether or not you treat them well the operationyou know one of the questions can be why is that it's that because they're notaccepted by society and we're not more loving could it be underlying issuesthat are causing them to feel this way in the first place like what is it wedon't know and I'm sure it varies widely look so all I can do is defer to theexperts that that I know about this right so another example of him saying Idon't know much about it I'm deferring to other people which is fine it's goodto defer to experts but let's hear what these experts say you know for instancethere's an author named Brin Tannehill who's a former former militaryhelicopter pilot I just interviewed her for my new podcast that's coming outsoon called actually I'm doing it on Earwolf andit's like a long-form interview podcast and so she's one of the people who'saffected by the Trump military ban on trans service people you know that's whybecause she's trans because she's trans yeah so basically I don't even know whathe said that expert said he said I have to defer to the experts and one expert Idefer to is this person and here's their story but it doesn't even talk to thepoint about suicide rate my concern is not with young adults deciding to takesteps to confirm their gender identity who they feel they really are I'm allfor you doing whatever you want to do when you're an adult when your mind isformed but people change their mind they change their opinion they change theirthoughts there's nothing wrong with just decide to be a gay man there's nothingwrong with your body you know as you grow and mature and develop you growingout of these ideas some will in some world now one of the things that pointout here is both of them are doing a good job not getting nasty with theother person because if one person got super defensive like the atom guy is alittle more defensive but he's still keeping somewhat jovial friendly I guesslike he just said he has a podcast here show so he's good at this and you cantell people to have experienced things like this what do they all do theystrive to keep it friendly and social and they don't get angry so I'll pointout that both of them are doing a good jobthe other thing I was gonna say is that I do know also among the trans folksthat I know are the trans people who speak about thisI've heard so many of them say I wish I had accessI knew this about myself at a very young age and I wish to God that I had that wehad I had had the ability to receive you know these hormones at a young age mylife would be so much better and so one of the things you notice here is theargument that's really the best argument that he's made so far he's actuallyreferring to people who are looking back and saying I wish it this but that's notat all what this initial question was it was should trans people be able tocompete with their new sex and so now he's back pedaled all the way to wellyeah it would be nice if people who wanted to transition could do it youngerI don't really have many thoughts on that but I do think it's a totallydifferent question than what was posed before so that's typically what peopledo when they can't justify or come up with a good answer for their originalpoint they back off the topic until they found the lowest common denominator thatthey actually do feel confident in defending which in this case is thisspecific topic I'm not gonna argue with those folks you know I wouldn't arguewith these folks either but you have to address the fact that there are peoplethat have gone through transition surgery and said I wish to God that Inever did this I do think that when we're talking about an issue thataffects those people right the first thing we should do is listen to thosepeople right through the children listen to the children and listen to the adultsright who said I used to be that child okay you know but they are not thatchild and you know – you said look everyone's different so for them to sayI was that child that's nonsense Romy's getting heated uphere and if you noticed this entire interview rogon hasn't not only laughedbut he hasn't smiled once this is clearly such a hot-button issue from andi want to remind you this video is not to pick sides on this debate right it'sinteresting in the comments to talk about that but this comment is to breakdown socially what's going on between them so you can understand what's goingon so when you find yourself in a debate like this a hot intense debate you cango over some of the things you said hey keep cool keep jovial be nice and eveyeasin now even now one thing I think Rogen could do he's usually very good atthis but he should realize that he's really worked up in stress and try tothrow in a and a smile every now and then becausethe Adam guy is and I think that would kind of lighten the load just to showthat he's not trying to be the guy like you're wrong this this this and thisthat's one thing that I would suggest sure but we're not we don't have eitherof those folks in the room right you know we have to acknowledge it they'rereal as well yeah I don't I'm not I'm not dismissing that those people arereal right but when we say if you talk to trans folks you get this impressionthat's not necessarily true yeah what a wide range of impression Rogen's notletting him slide with that comment I wasn't just I wasn't talking aboutspecifically the impression that it I wasn't saying we should reason fromanecdotal evidence right I'm saying that right now this guy wishes any resolverand Rogin even though he's being kind of tough on him by holding his feet to thefire and not letting questions slide that this guy doesn't have answers tohe's still being civil what if Rogan said listen dude you clearly have noidea what you're talking about why don't you just get your pudgy belly out ofhere what would he say that that's something that's totally different rightbeing able to reply to somebody who makes fun of you or talks down to you isa different skill it's not necessary in dealing with a guy like Rogan but let meask you maybe at the workplace or maybe your friends people kind of talk down toyou or they make fun of you or they just kind of slight you to kind of reduceyour social status and boost their social status it doesn't look good itdoesn't feel good when you know that you don't have anything to say when someonesays that you can kind of lower your competence this video isn't about thatbut if you want to watch a video where I talk to you about exactly what you cando to have a sharp and witty comeback when people come down on you you canclick right here and watch it now and if you haven't seen that video ofRogan going after Twitter and their attorney that's a really good one tooyou can click here to watch the video about quick and witty comebacks or clickhere and watch the Rogen Twitter video I'll talk to you there.

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